Comments for “an illustrative account” http://esau.org pragmatic ruminations on contemporary skepticism, good code, amateur culture, film and whisky Sat, 24 Jul 2010 14:40:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ Comment on How to Criticize Your SkeptiCamp Event by elaine http://esau.org/2010/07/24/how-to-criticize-your-skepticamp-event/#comment-93 elaine Sat, 24 Jul 2010 14:40:56 +0000 http://esau.org/?p=393#comment-93 Just like running a meet-up. My stock response "hey that's a great idea! run with it!" You were one of the handful that took me seriously. elaine Just like running a meet-up. My stock response “hey that’s a great idea! run with it!”

You were one of the handful that took me seriously.

elaine

]]> Comment on The Future of Grassroots Skepticism is Shirkyesque by Reed Esau http://esau.org/2010/06/17/the-future-of-grassroots-skepticism-is-shirkyesque/#comment-90 Reed Esau Sat, 19 Jun 2010 06:56:09 +0000 http://esau.org/?p=385#comment-90 Hello Donald. We met briefly at the Burbank AAI conference last October where I butchered your last name. I'm not opposed to groups in general, but rather I'm opposed to naive calls to organize new groups that ignore the pitfalls and failures of earlier skeptical efforts. To not carefully examine those failures and develop/adopt/adapt models that are within reach of part-time amateurs is to set ourselves up for yet more failed efforts that risk quashing the enthusiasm of many. I'm envious that LA can support at least two large skeptic-focused organizations, but you guys are by far the exception. It's presently very difficult to replicate your success and sustain healthy groups in smaller markets. Hello Donald. We met briefly at the Burbank AAI conference last October where I butchered your last name.

I’m not opposed to groups in general, but rather I’m opposed to naive calls to organize new groups that ignore the pitfalls and failures of earlier skeptical efforts. To not carefully examine those failures and develop/adopt/adapt models that are within reach of part-time amateurs is to set ourselves up for yet more failed efforts that risk quashing the enthusiasm of many.

I’m envious that LA can support at least two large skeptic-focused organizations, but you guys are by far the exception. It’s presently very difficult to replicate your success and sustain healthy groups in smaller markets.

]]> Comment on The Future of Grassroots Skepticism is Shirkyesque by Donald Prothero http://esau.org/2010/06/17/the-future-of-grassroots-skepticism-is-shirkyesque/#comment-89 Donald Prothero Fri, 18 Jun 2010 13:12:12 +0000 http://esau.org/?p=385#comment-89 I must politely disagree with Reed. At least for those of us who live in towns with healthy, functioning skeptical organizations (such as Skeptics Society in southern California), the group is a powerful influence. This Society has huge turnouts for our "Sunday go-to-meetings" and reaches tens of thousands through its magazine and eSkeptic. And I've heard stories of those isolated skeptics and atheists living in smaller towns who have now banded together and formed their own local groups, which offers valuable support and a network of like-minded individuals, and ends the feelings of isolation that so many atheists/skeptics must endure (especially in religious small towns). I take it as a good sign that these groups are growing nationwide, and that the census numbers show that non-believers are now almost 25% of the population. Bit by bit, we're becoming established and influential! I must politely disagree with Reed. At least for those of us who live in towns with healthy, functioning skeptical organizations (such as Skeptics Society in southern California), the group is a powerful influence. This Society has huge turnouts for our “Sunday go-to-meetings” and reaches tens of thousands through its magazine and eSkeptic. And I’ve heard stories of those isolated skeptics and atheists living in smaller towns who have now banded together and formed their own local groups, which offers valuable support and a network of like-minded individuals, and ends the feelings of isolation that so many atheists/skeptics must endure (especially in religious small towns). I take it as a good sign that these groups are growing nationwide, and that the census numbers show that non-believers are now almost 25% of the population. Bit by bit, we’re becoming established and influential!

]]> Comment on The Future of Grassroots Skepticism is Shirkyesque by Reed Esau http://esau.org/2010/06/17/the-future-of-grassroots-skepticism-is-shirkyesque/#comment-88 Reed Esau Fri, 18 Jun 2010 05:37:35 +0000 http://esau.org/?p=385#comment-88 A clear mission statement can help, but it's not a bulletproof defense. Keep in mind that there are at least several examples of skeptical groups at the regional and local level that also fell prey to such sniping and infighting. I'd bet most of them had very clear mission statements and perished in spite of them. A clear mission statement can help, but it’s not a bulletproof defense. Keep in mind that there are at least several examples of skeptical groups at the regional and local level that also fell prey to such sniping and infighting. I’d bet most of them had very clear mission statements and perished in spite of them.

]]> Comment on The Future of Grassroots Skepticism is Shirkyesque by Reed Esau http://esau.org/2010/06/17/the-future-of-grassroots-skepticism-is-shirkyesque/#comment-87 Reed Esau Fri, 18 Jun 2010 05:31:36 +0000 http://esau.org/?p=385#comment-87 Agreed that the label appropriation is alive and well. We saw that from the paranormal groups at Dragon*Con last year as an example. That's only mildly interesting compared to my second gauntlet, which is asserting an entirely different situation. Look at John Cook's "Skeptical Science" site as an example. From his use of the term 'skeptic' I'd assume that he doesn't identify with the skeptical community. I could be wrong on that assumption, but the point holds that there will be people like him who will be doing work of great value to skeptics. For more of a collective example, note the dozens (hundreds?) of editors keeping the Wikipedia pages of special interest to skeptics up to date and fighting off vandalism. I don't think we know how many of those active editors are involved in our community (attending TAM, etc.) but I'd wager the number is small. Agreed that the label appropriation is alive and well. We saw that from the paranormal groups at Dragon*Con last year as an example. That’s only mildly interesting compared to my second gauntlet, which is asserting an entirely different situation.

Look at John Cook’s “Skeptical Science” site as an example. From his use of the term ‘skeptic’ I’d assume that he doesn’t identify with the skeptical community. I could be wrong on that assumption, but the point holds that there will be people like him who will be doing work of great value to skeptics.

For more of a collective example, note the dozens (hundreds?) of editors keeping the Wikipedia pages of special interest to skeptics up to date and fighting off vandalism. I don’t think we know how many of those active editors are involved in our community (attending TAM, etc.) but I’d wager the number is small.

]]> Comment on The Future of Grassroots Skepticism is Shirkyesque by Daniel Loxton http://esau.org/2010/06/17/the-future-of-grassroots-skepticism-is-shirkyesque/#comment-86 Daniel Loxton Fri, 18 Jun 2010 04:06:34 +0000 http://esau.org/?p=385#comment-86 So, Reed. We meet again! (Funny thing about your second gauntlet is that I see a fair bit of the opposite: grassroots efforts that identify with the "skeptic" label but diverge from the traditional mandate. That said, I'm happy to note that a great many wonderful grassroots projects embrace both — and, indeed, those high quality grassroots projects are among most important things to happen to skepticism in decades.) So, Reed. We meet again!

(Funny thing about your second gauntlet is that I see a fair bit of the opposite: grassroots efforts that identify with the “skeptic” label but diverge from the traditional mandate. That said, I’m happy to note that a great many wonderful grassroots projects embrace both — and, indeed, those high quality grassroots projects are among most important things to happen to skepticism in decades.)

]]> Comment on The Future of Grassroots Skepticism is Shirkyesque by badrescher http://esau.org/2010/06/17/the-future-of-grassroots-skepticism-is-shirkyesque/#comment-85 badrescher Fri, 18 Jun 2010 02:06:04 +0000 http://esau.org/?p=385#comment-85 Ha! I disagree with you both! Partially, anyway. I don't think those questions are a huge problem for organizations themselves. A strong and clear mission statement takes care of that. I think the community in general will always be somewhat divided on some issues. Sometimes it's healthy. Sometimes it's not. Ha! I disagree with you both! Partially, anyway.

I don’t think those questions are a huge problem for organizations themselves. A strong and clear mission statement takes care of that.

I think the community in general will always be somewhat divided on some issues. Sometimes it’s healthy. Sometimes it’s not.

]]> Comment on Never, ever, ever, resort to FUD by Reed Esau http://esau.org/2010/04/08/never-ever-ever-resort-to-fud/#comment-80 Reed Esau Fri, 09 Apr 2010 15:33:08 +0000 http://esau.org/?p=359#comment-80 A good point that FUD is the path of least resistance -- perhaps because it's an appeal to emotion rather than reason? A good point that FUD is the path of least resistance — perhaps because it’s an appeal to emotion rather than reason?

]]> Comment on Never, ever, ever, resort to FUD by Baxter http://esau.org/2010/04/08/never-ever-ever-resort-to-fud/#comment-79 Baxter Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:14:40 +0000 http://esau.org/?p=359#comment-79 Thanks Reed! These kinds of reminders are so valuable. I think it is just far too easy to fall into the "FUD" approach. It does speak right to the heart of people that tend to live their lives by simply reacting. This and passive-aggressive behavior have become almost built in ways to argue. The next time we do a lecture on bad evidence, I will be taking a closer look to make sure the FUD is kept at a minimum! Baxter Thanks Reed! These kinds of reminders are so valuable. I think it is just far too easy to fall into the “FUD” approach. It does speak right to the heart of people that tend to live their lives by simply reacting. This and passive-aggressive behavior have become almost built in ways to argue.

The next time we do a lecture on bad evidence, I will be taking a closer look to make sure the FUD is kept at a minimum!

Baxter

]]> Comment on First Caterday Post! by Miranda Celeste Hale http://esau.org/2010/03/13/first-caterday-post/#comment-73 Miranda Celeste Hale Mon, 15 Mar 2010 01:10:38 +0000 http://esau.org/?p=322#comment-73 This = win win win win win! :) (But even better with Business Trip Kitteh!) This = win win win win win! :) (But even better with Business Trip Kitteh!)

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